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  • ultimate swap?

    hey, was wondering if anyone needs a copy of the altimate swap guide from tsn i had copied and pasted it a while ago. wonder if you guys would want to make it a sticky or not?

    if yes i'll post it up, i dont beleive i saw it on here anywhere.

    2004 Ion Redline Blue sunroof, advance audio, nexen rubber more to come..
    <br />
    <br />97 sl2 5spd [email protected] SOLD

  • #2
    Do it.


    • #3

      idk how much different the tsn one is from ours.

      we have A LOT of articles in the DIY section
      Originally posted by ECOtec Gods
      Consider this: 800 hp is a lot on a 2.0L motor. With 750hp, three-quarters of a thousand you're basically dealing with 6.14 hp per cubic inch. Pressures and stresses of all kinds thermal and mechanical loading across the board escalate to extreme levels. A Chevrolet 5.7-liter LS1 V8 with this much specific power (horsepower per cubic inch) would be making 2,137 hp


      • #4
        that was copied from tsn, unfortunetly that was just the first post, a lot of other stuff had been added after that


        • #5
          i had less than 50 posts on tsn i was just saying we already have some of the swapables

          post it up
          Originally posted by ECOtec Gods
          Consider this: 800 hp is a lot on a 2.0L motor. With 750hp, three-quarters of a thousand you're basically dealing with 6.14 hp per cubic inch. Pressures and stresses of all kinds thermal and mechanical loading across the board escalate to extreme levels. A Chevrolet 5.7-liter LS1 V8 with this much specific power (horsepower per cubic inch) would be making 2,137 hp


          • #6
            post it up. if it is similar to the one we have we will just take the not repeated stuff from yours and put it in our. otherwise we might use all of yours.
            2007 chevy classic 2500hd 4x4 duramax
            1996 383 lt1 auto trans am
            1995 sl1. single cam of fury
            1995 jeep wrangler lifted 4x4 4.0
            1995 ford explorer 4x4


            • #7
              sounds good i'll like it off the other site or if someone wants to pm me i got it in a word file as well.

              2004 Ion Redline Blue sunroof, advance audio, nexen rubber more to come..
              <br />
              <br />97 sl2 5spd [email protected] SOLD


              • #8
                For a long time there has been a need for a Saturn swap guide. I have decided that we should put our collective knowledge together and creat the first ALL INCLUSIVE list. Fred has started the list below. I need everyones help filling it out. PLEASE IF YOU HAVE INFORMATION POST IT!!

                Here are the rules for adding parts to the list.
                #1 only post once and edit your post after that. I will have a hard time tracking tons of posts.
                #2 Once I add the information to the main list I will delete your post.
                #3 If there is not a catogory posted you can always add one. The more information the better. Please be aware that this guide is a work in progress. The information contained within this swap guide is believed to be correct but be aware that errors maybe present.

                Swap Guide
                Intake manifolds and fuel delivery:
                91-94 Intake manifolds interchange.
                95-98 Intake manifolds interchange.
                99-2k Intake manifolds interchange

                91-94 Throttlebodies interchange.
                95-98 Throttlebodies interchange.
                99-2k Throttle bodies interchange.

                Fuel Rails
                91-94 Fuel rails and injectors interchange.
                95-97 Fuel rails interchange however the injectors from 95 and earlier years will not work correctly in the 96-97 years. The injectors are the same size they are just of different impedance.

                91-94 fuel pressure regulators where non-adjustable.
                95-97 fuel pressure regulators where adjustable.

                91-94 aluminum fuel rails will not fit 95-97 intake manifolds due to the bolt pattern and fuel lines being plastic.
                95-97 plastic fuel rails w/adjustable fuel pressure regulators will not fit the 91-94 intake manifolds due to the bolt pattern and fuel lines being metal. Also, the ports on the 93-94 are much cleaner than 91-92, though the 92 seemed to have a wider opening on the mouth of the intake ports. The 95 mics out close to the 93-94, though it is reshaped with a shallower curve leading down to the valve surface. The combustion chambers up to 94 are all identical.

                The 91-95 injectors are peak and hold or also known as low impedance.
                96-02 are called saturated injectors or also known as high impedance.
                set multi-meter to measure ressitance. 2-4(ohms) low impedance 4-10(ohms) weird injectors. pretty much only found on old porsches. 10-14(ohms) high impedance

                Cam covers:
                The earlier cam covers seal better, as they have more bolts holding them down.

                The '91 DOHC head is a freakshow-leave it alone.
                91-94 Heads interchange. (compatible with any year block.)
                95-98 Gen2 heads - Linear EGR valve, otherwise compatible with 91-94 heads. Compatible with any year block.
                99+ Gen3 Heads are NOT compatible with older heads. Completely redesigned. Compatible with any year block. 2000 (or 1999?) - 2002 Have the roller-rocker design with the small ports. 95 Heads do not interchange with any other year correctly. While yes all the heads up to 99 will interchange physically they will not have proper electronics and egr connections. The 95 head is the first year of the electronic egr valve. And the head has two coolant temp sensors. Now the 91-94 had a vacuum controlled egr valve and also had two coolant temp sensors. The egr mount is completely different between the vacuum and the electronic. The 96+ heads also came with the electronic egr valve but they only had one coolant temp sensor due to the fact that 96+ years went to the obd II pcm and only called for one coolant temp sensor. '91-'94 heads can be adapted to later year engines and use the new style EGR valve if you get the adapter from Saturn that was used on 1994 DOHC cars sold in California, I'l try to dig up the part number at a later time. You can use a '95 DOHC head all the way up to '98 all you have to do is buy one extra temp sender and screw it in the "spare" hole. Alternately, you can install the sender from an Autometer electric coolant temp gauge-it's a direct fit. Valves: 91-94 Valves; Flatfaced. Compatible with 91-98 cylinder heads.

                91-93 had flat faced valves
                95-98 Valves; Dished. Compatible with 91-98 cylinder heads.
                94+ had dished valves. Now what difference does it make? The 91-93 can be used to raise the compression slightly on the 94+ model years. While the 94+ valves can be used on 91-93 years to lower compression slightly.

                Exhaust manifold:
                91-92 OEM header is interchangeable for 93-98 DOHC Saturn engines SOHC are all the same DOHC switches from 5 to 9 bolt some year 1999? 1992 OEM Header can be used on 1991-199x model DOHCs (the year before they switch to the new bolt pattern).

                Oxygen Sensor Bungs:
                1991-1993 Smaller Bung = o2 Sensors/Bungs interswappable between these years but not interswappable w/ newer ones
                1994-2002 Larger Bung = o2 Sensors/Bungs interswappable between these years but not interswappable with older ones

                91-02 blocks are compatible with all years
                1991 - 1993 (midway through '93) blocks contain an oil feed restrictor (looks like a freeze plug with a hole in it) present in the right front oil galley beneath the deck. This should be removed to prevent oil starvation to the head, as the newer headgaskets function as the restrictor.
                91-99 blocks interchange externally. Now internally itأƒئ’أ‚آ¢أƒآ¢أ¢â‚¬إ،أ‚آ¬أƒآ¢أ¢â‚¬إ¾أ‚آ¢s a different ball game. The 91-92 had a crank all on its own that will not function correctly in the 93-99 years due to the positioning of the crank position sensor reluctor ring notches. 93-99 cranks are interchangable '92 to '03 blocks are totally interchangeable. The '00 and up blocks are stronger and all the accessories from previous years fit. Also, The internals from previous years will fit in the '00 and up blocks. There were 2 dipstick tubes used, not entirely sure when they changed, but 91-92 I know for sure had a dipstick tube that positioned itself away from the block, and I know that my 99+2000 have a dipstick tube that hugs the block. The actual dipsticks are the same length so you can use either tube to move the dipstick out of the way of the turbo, or supercharger.

                1991 - 1998 Rods are the same.
                1999 - 2002 Rods are the same. 1999-02 rods are longer than the 91-98 rods, and have to be used with the 99-02 pistons which have the wrist pin moved up. The 99-02 rods are 5.863" long vs 5.712" for the 91-98 rods.

                91-92 Crankshafts only work with 91-92 PCM's. Avoid at all costs.
                93-98 Crankshafts are essentially identical; compatible with any year block.
                99-02 Crankshafts were redesigned; heavier. Compatible with any year block.

                91-93 Pistons + 94-99 valves equal lower compression.
                94-99 Pistons with 91-93 vales equal higher compression. Now with these compression changes they are slight not drastic. It is about a 2-2.5 point change in compression. So do not expect huge gains. The 91-93 model years came with the lower compression piston than the later years. The way they maintained the 9:5:1 compression was using the flat faced valves. The 91-93 pistons also came with thicker ring lands which is a plus. Now the 94+ years came with a higher compression piston but it also came with thinner ring lands which is not good. The way they maintained the 9:5:1 compression was by using the dished valves to lower the compression down to its 9:5:1 state. 91-94 Pistons; Slight dish, thickest dome of all years. (Yields 9.5:1 compression with 91-94 flatfaced valves) Compatible with 91-98 rods.

                1991-1999 = Manufactured by Delco
                2000-2002 = Manufactured by Motorolla
                1991-1995 = OBD1
                1996-2002 = OBD2
                91-92 PCMs are grouped together. The wiring harness for them is slightly different (two wire type oil presssure unit). If using a 93+ block the oil pressure unit must be changed in order for the harness to hook-up. 93-94 PCMs are grouped together. 95 PCMs are year specific. Years after this, I'm not sure.

                MAP/Pressure sensors
                There are several varieties of pressure sensors from GM:
                Map sensors in 3 varieties (1 bar, 2 bar, 3 bar), and a barometric pressure sensor. 1 Bar sensors are good for NA engines, they measure from 0 (vacuum) to approximately atmospheric pressure. A 2 Bar sensor is good for 15 PSI of boost, and a 3 Bar unit is good for 30 psi of boost. They all share a common pinout, although the connector keying may be different: Pin A -- Ground Pin B -- Sensor output Pin C -- +5 volts Version Part numbers Description
                1 Bar GM part # 2503679 standard part # AS-5 Pretty much any normally aspirated TBI GM car, plus plenty of others

                2 Bar GM part # 16009886 ~$49 ( Wells part # SU-129 standard part # AS-4 91-93 GMC Syclone & Typhoon 4.3 turbo 87-90 Pontiac Sunbird Turbo 2.0 84-86 Sunbird (actually any J-car) turbo 1.8

                3 Bar GM part # 16040749

                When swapping heads from tbi SOHC to DOHC the engine side of the wiring harness needs to be swapped to the same year harness as the PCM/head. The SOHC PCM needs to be changed to the DOHC PCM of the same year grouping as the head (no matter what). If you have an auto, you must swap to the appropriate year DOHC tranny also. If going from mpfi SOHC to DOHC, the harness doesn't need to be change. 95 used OBD-II style closed loop operation. If you want to boost and plan on having the stock computer be a part of things, pre-95 is better. You can run rich at boost/part throttle. 95 and later you can't, 99+ is even more sensitive. When doing my swap from 95 SOHC to 96 DOHC I used the same wiring harness, but the 95 DOHC PCM I bought would not connect due to the connectors so I cut the little guide tabs off with some tile nippers and slid the connector in the PCM it snapped in and no service engine. The only problem was the 95 head has 2 temp sensors and the 96 only has one so I left the gauge sensor out.

                1991 - 1999 Have the original clutch design.
                2000 - 2002 Have the self-adjusting hydraulic POS.
                1991 - 2002 Have the same flywheel and throw-out bearing.

                Fuel System:
                1991 - 1997 Have the wonderful fuel return line.
                1998 - 2002 Have the returnless fuel system.
                1999(?) - 2002 have a plastic test port.
                91-94 fuel pressure regulators were non-adjustable.
                95-97 fuel pressure regulators were adjustable.
                91-94 aluminum fuel rails will not fit 95-97 intake manifolds due to the bolt pattern and fuel lines being plastic. Return type fuel rail used on 2003-04 Cavalier and Sunfires will convert "returnlees" type fuel rail on 2003-04 ION. You will need to convert/replace tank unit AND route a return line back to the fuel tank as well (or at least as far as the T-fitting at the fuel filter) The 2 line JBody filter can then replace the 3 line version in this mod.

                Fuel Pumps
                98-99 Type: Turbine G.P.H. 35-45 or L.P.H. 132-170 wide open Max P.S.I. 70-90
                97 Type: Turbine G.P.H. 30-40 or L.P.H. 114-151 wide open Max P.S.I. 70-85
                91-96 Type: Gerotor G.P.H. 30-45 or L.P.H. 114-170 wide open Max P.S.I. 65-75

                I understand the axles are larger on post '98-'99 cars? The spline pattern for 98 and up seems different. I know '98 to '93 are different, as I have parts for both. I pulled the '95 axle real quick and it has the same spline pattern as the '93. Of course, the ABS axles are thicker, and are preferable to the non-abs axles for anyone who's ever launched their car. They should be able to be used w/ or w/o abs, I'll verify that when I go to the parts yard.

                The rear disc brakes from any s-series with abs will fit any non-abs s-series.

                Oil pans:
                91-98 oil pans have a clearance problem when installing the windage tray from a 2000+up into your engine so get the oil pan along with the windage tray. The last 2 nuts hold the oil pan up about 1/4" off of the rail

                Belt tensioner:
                The belt tensioner from a 2000 will not fit 91-94, Iأƒئ’أ‚آ¢أƒآ¢أ¢â‚¬إ،أ‚آ¬أƒآ¢أ¢â‚¬إ¾أ‚آ¢m not sure about the 95-98 blocks though. The tensioner is too deep for the hole it sits in.
                99+up have a bigger hole in them to accommodate the new tensioner. You can use the old style tensioner in the new blocks.

                Instrument cluster:
                1991-1992 Instrument clusters can't be used with the 93+ wiring harness unless the wires are moved to the proper places in the connector face (some of the wires are in different places).

                Disk Brake Conversion
                Yeah for some reason Saturn decided to change the E-brake cables six different times. The models listed below each have their own style E-brake cable. There are two different lengths (short wheelbase, and long). Also, in '95 Saturn decided to change the connector at the E-brake cable. This continued till midway through '97, then they went BACK to the original style.
                91-94 SC/SC1/SC2 91-94 sedans and wagons and all 97-02 cars (97 with VIN#s VZ334256 (sdn) VZ334335 (wgn) and VZ334269 (cpe) & higher 95-96 SC1/SC2 95-96 sdns, wgns, all 97 models with VIN #'s VZ344255 (sedans) VZ344334 (wagons) and VZ334268 (sedans) and prior

                Aftermarket Fel-Pro Gaskets & Seals:
                1991-1998 Head Gasket: 9968 PT
                Intake Gasket: MS 95632 Intake Gasket: MS 95630
                Throttle Body Gasket: 60998
                91-94 Vacuum EGR Valve Gasket: 70978
                (94 CA)95-98 Linear EGR Valve Gasket: 70789
                Valve Stem Seals: SS 72867
                Front Crank Seal: TCS 45958
                Rear Main Seal: BS 40615
                Water Neck Seal: 35087
                Water Pump Seal: 35090

                Spring Rates
                OEM Springs: 126 lb/in front, 129 lb/in rear
                Dropzones 450 lb/in front, 350 lb/in rear
                H&R Race Springs: 310lb/in front, 250lb/in rear
                H&R Sport Springs: 205 lb/in front, 195 lb/in rear
                Eibach Pro Kit: 149 lb/in front, 91-159 lb/in rear
                Progress Group: 200 lb/in front, 170 lb/in rear
                Sprint 2" Springs: 200 lb/in front, 140 lb/in rear
                Sprint 2.5" Springs: 200 lb/in front, 140 lb/in rear
                KYB GR-2 front: 30% stiffer than stock KYB GR-2 rear: same as stock
                ARP studs from Jegs or Summit.
                Main Studs: Part #165-5402
                Head Studs: Part #165-4202
                Motor Mounts Prothane inserts. They're only $25.99 from Summit. And that will do both dogbones. Part # PTP-7-510. Caution: Engine Vibration may significantly increase over stock.
                2004 Ion Redline Blue sunroof, advance audio, nexen rubber more to come..
                <br />
                <br />97 sl2 5spd [email protected] SOLD


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