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**saturnspeed_12** · 10-29-2006, 01:08 PM

so after you rev to 5000 rpms, you blow something. why rev that much anyways. unless you mean after it supposedly seized you rev it, which of course isnt possible because its SEIZED, if it truly is.

and why hope it only has some bent valves? i dont think you know what kind of issues a single bent valve can cause.

and if the timing chain went, the engine will crank and will do so easily. it may sputter once in a while, but it wont run.

i dont think you should mess with it. you have no idea whats going on. how do you know the clutch was slipping when it wasnt driven? dont touch it, let soemone else deal with it. okay no im done

**therealm0rh0us** · 10-29-2006, 03:15 PM

it probably wouldnt stay runnin and it ended up goin to 5k unintentionally
ive done it quite a few times w/ the garbage that gets towed into the shop
not killed the engines but had to give em some gas to run em

**Anonymous** · 10-29-2006, 03:46 PM

sorry for the confusion... it seized and couldnt get it started again. If the timing chain snapped and its stuck in either an intake open or exhaust open positions, the piston would hit the valve and it wouldnt go anywhere. I drove the car before i bought it, and if the clutch is definetly bad.

Here's what i did: Clutch in, started car. First gear, parking brake still set. Dump clutch, car still stays running, idles at 600-700 rpm's. Just for it to accelerate to roll off the trailer (i was at an incline) i had to rev it to 5k rpm's. Drove it to the parking spot, still at 4-5k rpm's at this point, just barely crawling. Go to turn and kaput goes the engine. Since the clutch was so bad, the engine wouldnt spin with it in any gear, so its likely that the pistons hit the valves. If by some miracle all the valves were in the closed position, i'll be an extremly thankful boy.

I heard that a busted rotor or something in the starter motor would let the spindle come out, but not crank or something. When i tear the engine out, i'm going to test the starter on the vice and see if it works. Tear the engine apart and hope to god its just the timing chain and not a busted valve.

How would a bent valve be so much of a problem? I know the piston might have damage, but what will happen other than the valve bending?

The engine wouldnt even turn over or spin.. just like if there was no starter in the car. Would not crank.

**brokenheadz2003** · 10-29-2006, 05:46 PM

depends on what position the valve is in when its bends, it could break a piston ya....then broken piston fubars the bottom end cause of all the metal flying around. or it could break something in the head causing it to be no longer useable, like a camshaft cap, or anything else in there that moves

**saturnspeed_12** · 10-29-2006, 06:30 PM

it will still move even with a broken timing chain. if not, the starter will make some horrid noises or possibly chew teeth off the flywheel.

you probably grenaded the motor revving it like that. youve never driven a car with a clutch have you? if the clutch was bad, you would have released it more so it would grab more. not rev more, that would make it slip more. ive driven a car a few hundred miles on a dead clutch, hell ive driven 2 cars with dead clutches. my first car i ever had when i turned 16 had a burnt clutch. my saturn burnt a centerforce clutch, so i now how to handle them. you pretty much release the clutch and gas it.

so the smoke you had was probably the clutch.

**Anonymous** · 10-29-2006, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by saturnspeed_12

youve never driven a car with a clutch have you? if the clutch was bad, you would have released it more so it would grab more. not rev more, that would make it slip more. ive driven a car a few hundred miles on a dead clutch, hell ive driven 2 cars with dead clutches. my first car i ever had when i turned 16 had a burnt clutch. my saturn burnt a centerforce clutch, so i now how to handle them. you pretty much release the clutch and gas it.

so the smoke you had was probably the clutch.

no i've driven clutch many times before. The clutch was so bad that it would slip all the time. Its as if it was covered in oil from a leaky rear main seal or something. The entire time it was revving at 5k rpm's was when the clutch was fully engaged (foot off clutch). Just for me to keep the thing going, i had to gas it a lot. I know that it'll slip much more, but if i were to go any slower the car would have just stopped. Thats how weak the clutch is.

I talked with my dad telling him the stuff you mentioned about the smoke and how the engine will still turn, but he said i'm not going to fully know unless i tear the engine down. He agrees the smoke is probably from the clutch, and that the battery is probably dead or something. I'm just wondering why the engine would cut off like it did... and why the starter would take a crap at the same time?

**saturnspeed_12** · 10-29-2006, 07:52 PM

if the starter went out, it could be from the heat off the clutch being burned.

but like i said, if the clutch was bad you wouldnt be revving it like that. you would be using alot less. if the clutch was bad, under less revs it wouldnt stop. if the clutch was soaked in oil, after slipping a bit it would grab and maybe chatter. it would have to have been soaking in oil, then burned to a nice glaze and soaked in oil again to not hold because of oil. its not like the oil makes a pool for the clutch to soak in. ive had the ins and outs of clutch issues being, oil soaked(2x), glazed, burnt, and warped.

if the timing chain broke, im sure you would have heard it clang around. but i still dont get the whole thing where you said you dumped the clutch with the parking brake on and the car just idles? if you could truly dump the clutch and give no gas, and nothing happens you have no clutch to work with. so if thats what happened, then why try and move it?

there is WAY TOO MUCH CONFUSION right now. dont touch anything on the car till you can clear things up.

**Anonymous** · 10-29-2006, 09:37 PM

now that i think about it... when i was backing the car out of the driveway to get it on the trailer, it did grab a bit and chatter when i was actually moving a bit. I've only driven stick a few times and dont do it every day, so i didnt even think about it. Just driver error i guess. I admit, i am not the best stick driver in the world, but i can drive stick pretty well.

can it be possible that it'll start up fine tomorrow from cooling down?

**saturnspeed_12** · 10-30-2006, 01:12 AM

good luck with that one. i still cant clear the smoke out of my head to figure out what is the problem.

**Anonymous** · 10-30-2006, 02:44 PM

FOUND THE PROBLEM! Engine is in fact seized. I took out the plugs (they were in extremly bad shape) and tried to crank the engine. Nothing.. starter couldnt turn. Tried turning the crank with a breaker bar... wouldnt budge. Drained all the fluids, but there wasnt that much oil in it so it probably seized from oil starvation. Guess i'm in for a new engine now, and i'll mess with the current engine after i get it out.

**djgeo05** · 10-30-2006, 05:44 PM

hmmm oil starvation. reminds me of a bad time i passed a few months ago [img]{SMILIES_PATH}/confused.gif[/img]

**Anonymous** · 10-30-2006, 05:53 PM

What would be the problems with oil starvation besides spun bearings? Theres no hole in the block though.

**S.Bretz** · 10-30-2006, 08:18 PM

Rings welded to the sleeves

**Anonymous** · 10-30-2006, 08:19 PM

I'm pretty sure thats not the problem because when i was trying to turn the crank, my instructor gave it a try and it turned like... 5-10 degrees. When he tried turning it the other way the bolt loosened lol.

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