Problem: car running lean

[groundzero97sw2]

I've got a problem where my car (97SW2) leans out then goes to rich at irregular intervals, but constantly. it will idle normal when you first start the car for a few seconds, then start going irratic again, it does this through the entire rpm band.

so here's what ive tried so far:
new spark plugs
injector cleaner
cleaned the egr
unpluged the egr
new fuel filter

the only thing that i noticed was when i changed the spark plugs, the ceramic on the plug in the cylinder all the way to the left was sugnificantly more burnt than the other 3. bad injector?

Any ideas? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated [img]{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif[/img]

[slowion2]

how do you know it's leaning out? s-series run super rich by nature, that's just how the LL0 and LK0 are.

if you're looking at an a/f gauge on the stock o2 sensor that's your problem right there

[groundzero97sw2]

yea, a/f gauge on stock o2 sensor. but the idle changes with a rich or lean indication. not sugnificantly but it changes. would you reccomend a different o2 sensor other than stock? cant afford wideband [img]{SMILIES_PATH}/sad.gif[/img]

[slowion2]

ok that's normal, when cruising or idle the gauge will bounce back and forth from rich to lean sporadically or in a pattern. when you go WOT it's going to bury rich, and might spike lean for a split second when you let off, which is also normal.

the only way to get usable info about your a/f ratio is by using a wideband. what you have now is just a circle that makes a funky light show, and there in pretty useless aside from filling an extra hole in a gauge pod.

anyway, point is, there is nothing wrong with your car

[Plastic Fury]

ok that's normal, when cruising or idle the gauge will bounce back and forth from rich to lean sporadically or in a pattern. when you go WOT it's going to bury rich, and might spike lean for a split second when you let off, which is also normal.

the only way to get usable info about your a/f ratio is by using a wideband. what you have now is just a circle that makes a funky light show, and there in pretty useless aside from filling an extra hole in a gauge pod.

anyway, point is, there is nothing wrong with your car

Yep, that's exactly what my NB funky light show does lol. I need a WB too. One of these days.

[groundzero97sw2]

if i wasnt missing my power band i would probably let it go at that, but my car definatly isnt running right lately.

[slowion2]

well ok lets start with what plugs are you running? if they're platinum or those bosch +4 shitballs get rid of them. most people run NGK BKR5E-11's gapped at .035-.040

what octane fuel do you run? have you changed out your PCV valve? how many miles? have you swapped in a copper ECTS? air filter?

there's a lot of variables that could effect your car.

[groundzero97sw2]

the original plugs i had in when the problem started were the stock plugs from saturn, now i have ngk bkr5e-11.

i was running low octane then after this problem i dumped in 93, no change.

havent changed the pcv recently but its still rattleing when you shake it.

120k miles

i dont know what an ects is, so i gues i havent changed it....

and i have a warm air intake for years now, cleaned the filter like 2 months ago.

i would like to thank you again for all of your help [img]{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif[/img]

[slowion2]

yeah...stick with 87, no need for higher

do you notice if your fan turns on by itself if you let the car sit a while? does the temp gauge move at all or is it always stationary?

[groundzero97sw2]

latley sice the outside temprature has been low and ive been running the heat. the coolant temp stays at around 1/4. which has been normal in my car. but if i just sit there the engine will get to about 1/2 then the fan kicks on.

[therealm0rh0us]

change that first
most rich, lean, overheating, rls problems stem from a bad and or leaking ects
on a saturn in my own experiance
or maybe you bungled the o2 by puttin the af guage on it

[slowion2]

that's actually very possible, if it's a bad connection it will give off a dirty signal. take the gauge lead off and tape up the wire on the sensor, then reset your ECU and see how it is.

[S.Bretz]

I'm gona go out on a limb here and say that you might be haveing a fuel pump issue. I woud check the pressure and see what it does in comparison to ti 'acking funny'.

[groundzero97sw2]

thats a very good idea, im asking around to see if anyone i know has a pressure gauge, but so far no luck. its probly not the wireing job because it was running bad before i put it in. but i hope its not multiple problems. once again i really appreciate all of your help [img]{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif[/img]

[saturnspeed_12]

do you sometimes have trouble starting up? i know the fuel pump issues ive come across have always been a slow prime.


im going to say,

plug wires
fuel pump
ects