265 whp capable?

[Don Ganso]

Will I be able to make this power, (max), with this set up RELIABLY?

Turbo kit:
ebay t3/t4 50trim .48
alphatuning miniram and 3" dp
2" hotside, 2.25" coldside IC piping
ebay IC, (not positive on dimensions right this sec, something like 25" x 9-10" x 2.5")
TiAL 38mm with 7lbs spring
Blitz SS BOV

Block:
.020" over
2000+ girdle
SCAT rods
Sealed power SOHC pistons
'96 crank
balanced 8 or 9k

Head:
Stock rebuild/valve job
mild porting
stock cams
taper bored TB

Fuel:
MS, (FUEL ONLY, so maybe MS1?)
550cc injectors
'94 fuel rail
Stock pump


If this setup is going to be unstable/unreliable at this power level, please say so and say why. I have everything except for the girdle, the pistons, the MS, and I have not had any of the machine work done yet.

[redhotFTW!]

Definitely.
Right up until those pistons crack or that Ching Chong cheap turbo blows to pieces and your engine sucks it up.

[johnny95sl2]

To be reliable at that power level I would go forged pistons.

[punkboySL2]

Same here. I would just spend the little extra for forged pistons and you should be fine. If you're using that cheap turbo make sure to use an oil restrictor and it should be ok. Also you may max out the fuel pump at over 250whp, not totally sure on that though. Lastly you'll be needing to run probably 14-15 psi on that setup to make that kind of power. At 7lbs I was making 210 with a similar setup.

[Don Ganso]

Same here. I would just spend the little extra for forged pistons and you should be fine. If you're using that cheap turbo make sure to use an oil restrictor and it should be ok. Also you may max out the fuel pump at over 250whp, not totally sure on that though. Lastly you'll be needing to run probably 14-15 psi on that setup to make that kind of power. At 7lbs I was making 210 with a similar setup.

A few things:

1.) I was hoping to use the cast pistons because I want to try and drive this in the winter, so I figured the cast pistons would fit to the bore better on cold starts? I do not know how important this will be if I drive it a lot in the winter; maybe very important, maybe not at all, so I figured I'd mention this so I can be sure before I buy anything else. Given this consideration, cast or forged? I hoped that the lower compression with the SOHC pistons and a thick head gasket would be enough to avoid the detonation that could/would destroy them. I've heard the rods go before the pistons in a stock bottom end, so I'm for sure using the SCATs, (which I already have), but at what power level would the pistons go if the compression ratio is 9.0:1 or less?

2.)The ebay turbo will get a rebuild from blaast, (although I've heard negative things about them, so I'm looking for somewhere else that does the china-with-garrett-internals rebuild), after the engine is broken in.

3.)I mentioned the wastegate spring rate because, while I will run it at 7lbs during the break in period, I will want to turn up the boost later to reach my power goal and I have read that one should not double the spring rate with boost, (meaning my maximum boost pressure would be 14), but I do not know if this is a hard and true fact or not. I have no problem with buying another spring, (a pretty freakin' cheap investment compared to the whole build), I'm just wondering whether or not I need to.

4.)I thank you all for your help, but no one has said anything about the MS running fuel only yet. Is this because it will not be an issue? I'm trying to keep the engine management simple, (without going to a supplemental injector controller), so that it is easier for a novice tuner like myself to troubleshoot. Is this a major misconception? Do I need to run spark to truly be safe or will controlling fuel only be OK? The megamanual can tell me how to do it, but it is you wise folk here who can tell me if it is doable.

Finally, and I should have mentioned this in the first post, I am trying to reach a desired power-to-weight ratio, NOT a specific whp. I would like to have 10 (or less) pounds of vehicle per whp with me in the car while being able to keep my back seats and some interior. I already have removed the spare, the rear windshield wiper and fluid bottle, (it's an SW2), the rear speakers, the headliner, the A/C compressor, and I will also be putting in a smaller battery and removing the power steering while the drivetrain is out. I'm still checking evilplastik for ideas, but I'm still going to drive this car on the street quite a bit, so it needs to somewhat hospitable. If I can get the car down to 2500lbs with me inside and still have room for my dog and some tunes, then I'm good with around 250whp. Sure I'd love to go nuts and get a bulletproof GE block and some basketball sized snail, but it's just not practical financially right now for me.

Thanks everyone for the advice and the realism. Please shoot me down when my retarded aspirations for a 19 year old plastic car become completely delirious, (if they aren't already).

[phat95nosdsc2]

Like others have stated. Cheap parts mean breaking easier. For that power level. And that mod list, I'd strongly consider fuel and spark control so you can time very very safely.




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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.033870,-88.023868

[Don Ganso]

The only reason I'm considering the sealed powers is because of cold starts, just because of fitment. If it is irrelevant/unimportant please say so directly; I have nothing against getting some forged pistons, I just figured that if I kept the compression low enough it would be ok.

[phat95nosdsc2]

Yes piston to walk clearance is bigger on a forged motor. Let it warm up some before driving. My motor sounds like shit cold. But once it's warmed up. Its all golden.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.127373,-88.090048

[S.Bretz]

YOu can get a forged piston with a slightly higher silca content than normal. It should help reduce some of the loose when cold clearance issues but you will still have a forged piston. My first set of JE piston where like that. They wore very nicely in the bores even after 100k miles of abuse. They are just not as forgiving when try to get more than 200hp per liter out of an engine...but they are still stronger and softer (more forgiving to detonation and lean conditions) then hyperutectics.

[Don Ganso]

Did some more math, and I think that I'd be fine with 230-240 whp or so; it will still have a better power to weight ratio than any stock or even mildly modified evo. That should be more than enough; still go with forged or will that put the sealed powers in the "safe" range? Shifting at 6600, (read in another thread that the stock sleeves don't like 6750rpm and over), funning fuel and spark, (the more I read, the more I think I can handle setting up/tuning spark, but I still have much more to learn before I do). I am forced to understand more and more every day that this is a Saturn, not a Ferrari, so spending less is not a bad thing. I do not think I will go any lower whp than this^ though, otherwise why bother with rebuilding anything?

[punkboySL2]

I would say if you drop your power goal to 230, stick with sealed power SOHC pistons and do spark and fuel as you're saying and you should be ok. I ran 11lbs through my car for a month on stock motor, stock spark and it ran great, but I'm sure I was missing out on a bunch more power and it probably would have blown up if I had left it like that and kept beating it all of the time.

[Don Ganso]

I would say if you drop your power goal to 230, stick with sealed power SOHC pistons and do spark and fuel as you're saying and you should be ok. I ran 11lbs through my car for a month on stock motor, stock spark and it ran great, but I'm sure I was missing out on a bunch more power and it probably would have blown up if I had left it like that and kept beating it all of the time.

So when does the big engine go in?

[S.Bretz]

WIth the bullforg cams , a t4, and 10psi, I was seeing about 240whp with a safc and stock timing. It had forged pistons and stock rods. It ran like that for about 2 years. I strapped the IAT to the upper rad hose to heat it up and pull out some timing...that combined with the cams made it pretty relaible. With more fuel control and timign control, I bet I could have had another 10-15hp at the wheels.

[punkboySL2]

So when does the big engine go in?

As soon as I finish the 800 other things first haha. With over 230 whp the car should be capable of getting into the 12s. That's a pretty quick daily.

[S.Bretz]

Power wise, it will be 'capable.'