Supercharger advice

[Civic Eater]

Hey all,
I have an automatic 2000 LS1 2.2L and have been looking into a supercharger. Ive gone through alot of posts on this forum, read all about what i could on previous posts about supercharging but kind of gave up after about an hour and decided to post a question. I had found a supercharger to fit 03-04 cavalier/sunfires which also have the 2.2L 4 cyl, but wasnt quite sure if it would fit right/ run right. Theoretically it sounds like everything would work but i dont want to order it without a definite answer. I've talked to GM specialists and they had no idea how to answer what i was looking for. I figured this forum might be able to help me. So here's the supercharger i found : http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/E ... 77C41.aspx
I had already looked into vortech and decided against it, so i was searching and found this one. If anybody has any advice on this or other suggestions, please let me know. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.
Aaron

[slowion2]

will it bolt up? yes, sure will

your problem will lay with fuel management, as spark will be very very mild so you probably can get away without retarding it much if at all. you'll need at least one step colder plugs too.

honestly, with a centrifugal style blower, you'll have a more efficient setup with more linear power, as opposed to throwing the Eaton on the stock engine, which has a lot of low end. then again, with an automatic the taller gears may work well.

what transmission is the auto? have any info on it's durability? that would also be a large concern of mine since these engines have a lot of potential and will create a lot of torque.

[Blue04RedLine]

Hey vinny, Civic Eater is my brother and this is what I was talkin to ya bout in those pm's. I told him to sign up and do some more research to see if he could find anyone on here that had done this before on the 00 2.2L's. What kinda fuel problems would you be worried about, because I was kinda assuming (more like hoping) that this kit also addressed that issue with larger injectors. Being there is a flash that goes with the kit, I figured it would recalibrate for the new injectors pretty much like the stage kits do for the RL's. If we needed to use some sort of other tuning device, what works on these ecu's? Will we need to go full stand alone or possibly just a maf-t or something of that sort? BTW, not gonna be at gators tonight, i'm back down in ft. lauderdale again.

[slowion2]

lol figures, you're our forever AWOL guy Josh

the deal is this: that kit is designed for J-Body cars, not an L series. the ecu and harness is going to be different as compared to what it is actually designed for. that being said, the reflash that GM has for that kit would not work on the ecu in the L car.

maf-t = complete and utter garbage, and in this case wouldn't be used since it's speed density (meaning a map sensor). if you're wanting to do something to alter the fuel curve and looking to not spend a ton, look into a SAFC2 to install with some larger injectors. even then, we play the add/remove game and hope timing isn't getting thrown to hell and back.

best solution would be a stand-alone, or at least something like a Greddy E-Manage, basically a piggyback but a lot more sophisticated than most.

[Blue04RedLine]

That is basically what I have been trying to get an answer on for him. I knew that the physical parts would bolt up, but didn't know if the cal it came with from GM would work, and if that didn't, then the whole thing wouldn't work right. Unfortunately, I don't know the first thing bout the L's when it comes to modding, because there really wasn't much I looked into when it was mine. With saturns, I know the RL's the best for obvious reasons. If we went with the E-Manage, and some type of forced induction (wether it be roots or centrifigul blower, or turbo) who would be the best to have tune it up there? Also, I'd want to play it safe as far as internals and valve train go so what are the known limits on the older 2.2's? Has anything changed mechanically or would we even be able to follow the build book as far as that goes? That would be pretty bad ass if the build book were applicable here. It would give me something to start with as far as limits and possible replacements for those weak parts. And I'll have to look into the tranny as well, because I have no clue what the auto can take as far as power/torque. Sorry for the long post, just lots of questions I guess, ones I'm having a hard time finding answers too.

[slowion2]

LOL RL's the best, hahahaha

There are a few options here. One is to find out what style ECU is in the L and see if it by any odd reason is covered by HP Tuners, or is planned to. That would make things worlds easier to accomplish. May want to contact Wop On Tour, he knows which is which for a fact.

Another is go to with a full standalone like a Microtec or Electromotive TecII/III or even a "smart" piggyback like a Greddy e-Manage. Problem though for what you ask is I don't know of any shop that would either be interested in it or able to do the install. If anything, CFT (Central Florida Turbo) would probably be the ones to go to, but I think they are still gunshy of anything with a Saturn logo because they dont' work with them at all honestly.

The older and newer 2.2 Ecotecs both have the same limits, so you should be fine there as long as he keeps it below 250whp or so. Remember, torque is going to be insane anyway, and that's what will probably break things or at least wear them out early. MOST of the build book specs is applicable here, but it's not the only way to achieve things.

If you can, see if you can find out the tranny code for that car's automatic. At least you or myself can look up further specs on it as far as what it can handle powerwise. I'd hate to see you build this thing up and then have the trans take a shit a month or two into it. I can tell you now, at the least we're going to need a decent tranny cooler for it.

For the amount of money that's going to be spent on this with the Eaton unit, you may want to look into either a custom turbo setup, or a centrifugal blower such as a Procharger C-1.

I only bring this up because at that point we will be able to manage fuel way easier by way of extra injectors and a controller if needed. I would not use a setup like that though on a positive-displacement blower in case of fuel puddling in the aftercooler and such, just in case you know. Changing the setup to a "compressor" would only really need piping, a blow-off valve, and an intercooler. We'd also need to see where to mount the blower and align the belt and such.

Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

If I remember correctly the automatic used in the 2.2L L-series is the 4T35E. The v6 uses the 4T45E.

The manual transmission that was used in the 2.2L L-series is the Getrag F35. It has the same gear ratios as the Ion Redline but a different final drive (4.450 L and 4.05 RL).

[Blue04RedLine]

Thanks vinny. I know the manual trans would be alot storonger and has some upgrades out (it's the same tranny in the Saab 9-3's too isn't it?). I knew finding someone to work on the thing as far as tuning goes, and any custom piping we needed would be hard. I'd imagine it would be just as hard down here as well though. If I were able to find someone down here, or even over by tampa I'd make the drive because it would be worth it. I'll see what I can find out about the ecu and the auto trans because those are our two key issues right now. I could technically follow the build book if I wanted to in terms of finding parts to fortify the internals so we don't break stuff. Main part of anything I try to build is making sure it will last. I don't wanna fix the same stuff over and over again every month.

[Anonymous]

Hey if he hasnt orderd the kit yet i know u can get the kit for around 2200 and 18 bucks shipping let me know a guy that i know with a cavalier is going to go with this kit and i am as well for my sunfire...

[slowion2]

If I remember correctly the automatic used in the 2.2L L-series is the 4T35E. The v6 uses the 4T45E.

The manual transmission that was used in the 2.2L L-series is the Getrag F35. It has the same gear ratios as the Ion Redline but a different final drive (4.450 L and 4.05 RL).

actually the entire trans is different from the base ion to redline, and the L's shared the same trans as the redlines do.

Thanks vinny. I know the manual trans would be alot storonger and has some upgrades out (it's the same tranny in the Saab 9-3's too isn't it?). I knew finding someone to work on the thing as far as tuning goes, and any custom piping we needed would be hard. I'd imagine it would be just as hard down here as well though. If I were able to find someone down here, or even over by tampa I'd make the drive because it would be worth it. I'll see what I can find out about the ecu and the auto trans because those are our two key issues right now. I could technically follow the build book if I wanted to in terms of finding parts to fortify the internals so we don't break stuff. Main part of anything I try to build is making sure it will last. I don't wanna fix the same stuff over and over again every month.

it's no problem Josh, appreciate your patience in getting back to you guys. see I have been told throught he grape fine that the tranny computer for the 2.2 has been suported by HP Tuners, but not sure which one it is, which sucks. Now I'm fairly sure we can at least hook up a SAFC2 to the ecu to manage fuel, I should have the pinouts at home as well. If you kept the stock pulley on and such you could stick to stock internals, guys with stock 2.2's have been hitting close to if not dead at 300whp for a short while. I'd stick to the 250whp range since you're going to make more than enough power to turn the gears, and the torque is going to be quite a bit higher than we'd expect on say the LSJ.

You know, if we just got that kit, and took care of fuel, we could run a cobra heat exhanger in place of the stock one for that aftercooler, with the pump thats given, I bet it would help a bit as well. and just run redline plugs since it won't be stellar boost levels. you could at least get a ballpark street tune figure with a wideband, and save the fine tuning for the dyno since it will be a bit harder with the auto.

[Red4Coupe]

Vinny...are you yanking my chain about the L - RL transmissions, or are you dead serious. If that is the case, I'm about to go find me an L-series manual tranny and swap it in with the engine build. I honestly had NO idea that was the case. Sorry about off topic.../hijack off.

Tim

[slowion2]

I'll check my FSM if I get the chance, but just to give you an idea since this has come up before:

http://www.turbosaturns.net/forum/viewt ... 519#367519

[Anonymous]

If I remember correctly the automatic used in the 2.2L L-series is the 4T35E. The v6 uses the 4T45E.

The manual transmission that was used in the 2.2L L-series is the Getrag F35. It has the same gear ratios as the Ion Redline but a different final drive (4.450 L and 4.05 RL).

actually the entire trans is different from the base ion to redline, and the L's shared the same trans as the redlines do.

I never mentioned the base ion compared to the redline. :lol:

[slowion2]

yeah you did, why did I say that then? lol

EDIT: oh wait, it's the tranny code, the ion has the Getrag F25 (M86) tranny, I think the redline is the F35. or I'm just too dislexic for my own good.

[intimidator400]

you've got it right. The QC has the F25 and the RL has the F35. I have had both. The QC 3 had 3.85 gears in the differential and my RL has 4.05's in the differential.